This Richard Spencer’s Interview has been banned in Italy and other European Countries, released to Israeli Journalists from Itai Anghel of Uvda, Keshet TV (Israel), here the full transcript:
My name is Richard Spencer, I was born in Boston Massachusetts, I grew up in Dallas Texas, I attended the University of Virginia, the University of Chicago. I have degrees from both of those institutions.
I was actually a student, a doctoral student, at Duke University and I dropped out to become a journalist.
I have always been on what you could say it’s the dissident right in the United States, so when I started writing about politics is when I first worked at the American conservative magazine.
I was always criticizing both the establishment in general but the conservative establishment in particular, so I was certainly motivated by my opposition to the Iraq war at the very beginning and the whole neoconservative blue shit agenda but I think I wasn’t just criticizing that, I was also criticizing bipartisan consensus.
I started using the term alternative right around the summer of 2010, when the first usage of that term was put forward and then certainly by me, I was editing a magazine called Takis magazine where we were discussing the alternative right. Openly the alternative right wasn’t at that point what it is right now,
but I had created my own website AlternativeRight.com and I was clearly an identitarian in the sense that I had moved away from the pure negative origins of the alternative right as: ”We don’t like Bush, we don’t like the Iraq war“, we’re not the religious fanatic people, right we’re not mainstream conservatives, we’re alt something and I think that we started to become something and that is identitarian and what that means is that identity is the root of how we look at the world so if you think about the conservative movement in the United States which is very different from other rights around the world, they start out from a stand point, we believe in free market economics, we believe in an aggressive foreign policy or so, we believe in somewhat generic, Christian values or something like that we wanted to start from a new place and also when you think about the left, well the left in previous centuries believed in a communist utopia, an end to the division of labor and wealth and equality and so on and a new type of society a new type of human being that was their starting point so we needed a new starting point one that wasn’t purely economic that wasn’t purely constitutional and identity is it and I would say that identity itself is in question we live in an increasingly globalized world and although many people like to an age against the globalist and so on there are many great benefits of this, the economic benefits communication benefits and and so on, but I think everyone not just white people everyone’s in this situation where we don’t quite know who we are, how we fit into this new world and and there obviously some some you could say contradiction with in one can be both, one can have a global world, outlook and be connected with different people and so on, but one has to call one place home, one has to be from somewhere, what has to be something before one can connect to the world.
I think many other races and peoples are fine with us, one can be an international businessman but also an Israeli citizen and and someone who truly cares about the Jewish state, what one can be an African and have traveled all over the world or what have you but is ultimately from somewhere, but I think for white people in general and and American White’s in particular where we don’t know where we’re from someone actually mentioned to me the other day that there’s a turn of phrase that people are used saying.
I’m based out of Cincinnati , I’m based out of Florida or something like that, and that basically means they’re they happen to be there right now for a you know for the net for the next three months I’ll be based out of somewhere they’re not truly from somewhere they’re not they don’t have that sense.
Germans call Heimat, or even Patria a national feeling, from the French language and so really this question of identity it is a question, it’s something for Americans we live in a globalized world, a world of automobiles and strip, malls and and the internet and all this kind of stuff and that question of who are we is a question, it’s a search and I would say that we there are many different levels of identity there, it is a purely elective level, what movies do you like, what what television shows you watch, what music you listen to and but even that says something about you but then there’s some deeper level of things, you don’t choose one, one is born into a family, one is born into a certain region, one speaks a language, one has a nationality a passport, so National Citizen identity but at the basis of identity is race and and what is race: race is an extended family, race is a concept that I’m not just an individual and I’m not just a member of a family unit with four eight people but actually I’m connected to a bigger civilization and in this has a biological component to it, of course it has a cultural and a linguistic and a spiritual component as well but it fundamentally is a family that is something that stands for the State of Israel, it seems to be very good at in the sense that Israel has a sense of joy around the world really and not just Israeli citizens there’s a concept of the Diaspora and and I know that certainly Jews don’t see eye to eye, they’re , you know, I think you, Jews are at each other’s throats often but there’s still a sense of family that is bigger than simply an individual or simply an ideology and so that is what Identitarianism is for me, so the Alt-right it’s nothing if it’s not an identitarian movement if it’s nothing if it’s not searching for meaning in this world and it’s great. We got very excited about Trump: then build the wall and all that stuff that’s all great but it’s also a bit meaningless to be honest if the Altright is simply a Trump cheerleading squad or we’re simply get exercised by this issue or that one or we hate Hillary Clinton or whatever the Alt-Right will have. The Alt-right fundamentally has to be about a search for identity and a search for something for truth than something bigger in this world.
I mean when you’re in village you’re home, you’re bacteria who belongs to it and who is not belong to it.
Well it’s interesting because we can look at that historically and then we can also look at that in terms of the future so historically what it means to be an American, what it means to be a US citizen, did have a racial component actually it in this was made explicit in terms. The United States was a frontier, and it is very the opposite of Prussia, which was a military society with enemies around.
I had hit both gates, it was the open frontier but it had to become United States, where a citizen was someone who was white of good character and so there was this interesting quality to the United States where it was wide open there there there was a founding nation I mean John Jay talked about he thanked God actually about the fact that the United States would more or less congealed around Anglo-Saxon Protestantism, certainly with the the immigration that came out of the XIX century, the United States started to become a White Christian country, it wasn’t just Anglosaxon Protestant but it was white Christian and, I would say now, in the XIX century all of these things are are still in question, in a way we are certainly white and we are attacked as being white, in the sense of discrimination against whites and white meaning particular at universities and in major corporations and government hiring etc.
We’re being attacked racially in turn discrimination in the sense of a culture, culturally and morally you can feel a sense of guilt the four times the biggest thing like discrimination at Apple computer or at the US government or at Princeton University, none of that compares really with this profound feeling of guilt that is burdening the white race and this is a very interesting thing because it is actually is post-christian it’s which is not anti-christian in a sense that previously there was an original sin and a redemption through the coming of Christ, now there is this original sin which is slavery or racism or perhaps in Germany and although elsewhere the Holocaust or so on and then we can be redeemed in a way by bringing in the second the Jesus Christ comes in as an immigrant or a refugee or a white person can engage himself raising a flag or of stuff like collaboration.
I’m mispronouncing that word self harm effectively by giving over power by saying: “Oh I don’t want my community to be white. I don’t want my university to be white, I want to bring in as many people as possible and so on that we can kind of overcome this guilt by destroying ourselves“.
You’ll remember at the point of time in which you felt “yeah that make me feel guilty”, I mean you were not born like it, I mean, I guess there was a point in time in which you really felt something you came gradually and gradually more radical.
I have asked to myself how did you become like this, and basically I think that I was always like this. I was not a radical in the sense that there’s no point of my life that was like throwing bombs or really even protesting that much as a young person but I did have a radicalness in the sense that I wanted meaning in my life and I was in search of this. I was in search of this intellectually on the left from for most of my adult life on the right, more recently but also I wanted meaning in the sense that the white race is a : “We have a guilt culture at the moment” and we ultimately need a hero culture at the end of the way of this overcoming, and this guilt it’s going to be a kind of embrace of the past and a certain forgetfulness as well.
We can’t look a tour of own history as a history of violent oppression of the world, we can’t think of ourselves as we’re uniquely evil we are the cancer of mankind, the cancer of human history in the words of Susan Sontag, we have ultimately to be proud of the fact that we’re powerful and when one’s powerful, what one does engage in things that are violent, when does engage, when takes on that burden of ruling and conquering and exploring and we need to embrace that, but on another level we also need to learn how to forget things and Nietzsche was very insightful when he talked about the importance of memory but also the importance of forgetfulness and memory is wonderful and that we remember our parents, our ancestors are of certain feeling, we had when we were a child but memory can also be a burden if we are constantly burdened by the weight of something like the Holocaust.
Theodor Adorno said there’s no art after Auschwitz, effectively that terrible act is so awful that you you can’t create something life-affirming and heroic at some point we need to swallow that guilt and forget and maybe a lot of conservatives. The past is more important we need to always go back to us, the future is, I disagree the future is more important, we need to have a an openness to what we’re going to do in the future, we need to think of ourselves as we will will a better world for ourselves and our children, we are not going to be weighed down by mistakes, we might have made by true things that are truly a terrible.
The terrible actions in war are certainly not unique to the white race but yes there are many aspects when I look back to the XX century by I want to cry or vomit, it was a disaster on many levels but we need to ultimately overcome this psychologically and think of ourselves again as a heroic people one that should be making the world a better place, also many other cultures are not burdened by this guilt and this is where is what White’s need to become. All of the discrimination, the immigrants, the bad foreign policy, all that stuff is tiny, it’s a flea in comparison with this massive elephant that is white guilt.
Journalist: “My grandmother came from my Germany, thank God no one got hurt or my family came from Germany I would never be able to forget obviously the Holocaust, and the Second World War, but no problems for me to someone who is German. I won’t be connecting to him just after, I will make sure that he feels guilty for the rest of his life.”
Frank I agree with that, right, but the thing like forgetting the past , as you meant it, like okay let’s not refer to it, it never happened or no, I don’t think we should refer to it as it never happened, I think there’s a place for history, there’s a place for remembrance and so on, but what I’m saying is that memory is not an end in itself, and memory has to be judged as a forgetfulness and forgetfulness is a quality.
I have made mistakes in my life, I’ve made mistakes recently, so what I’ve but at some point you have to overcome these errors and and move on but if we live in this guilt culture this is the sense that we are uniquely burdened with this guilt and we will be redeemed from the outside, we will be redeemed by allowing and refugees will be redeemed by giving up power and so on we will continually sink into degeneration so you think you on being misinterpret by all the others, or by other journalists and so no, not general enough black people, Jews, or whoever would think that you’re white supremacist racist and that stuff like the one won’t be listening to you or where according to you, everybody got it drunk, yes and no.
I would say that I am being misunderstood in the sense that when I say these things this doesn’t mean that I don’t have respect for other and understanding for other races and other peoples in the sense that I can actually talk with a black nationalist and say I understand you, I can see, I can talk with an Israeli, or an Israeli nationalist and say I understand you at the same time I understand what I’m doing, I think it’s a lot of the outrage against me and the alright and the whole thing is in a way warranted because we are trying to change the system.
I’ve never wanted to engage in politics in order to twist a knob and move the lever and just adjust the system, the system probably should fear people like me because we are offering a different world view and that’s going to have wildly different cultural and political implications.
So I don’t like it when I am being deep flat formed on social media and on payment process, all this kind of stuff it’s terrible but in a way I cant get out of it because what the world is, the history is not always a history, it is often a zero-sum game.
I mean history isn’t always a live and let live, let’s all have our own opinion and we’ll all gather around and sing Kumbaya history, this is often a battle and there are winners and losers. I want the world to go in a different direction and there’s no way I understand why people not so much your average black person, your average Jewish, your average Hispanic, whatever, they would not go to have coffee with them, get in a conversation.
I don’t want to harm them, I respect their own identity but the system itself, if you like to differentiate yourself from them, is a yes no question but they want to differentiate themselves for me, I mean look white people, they are in this weird position, where we are we are viewed as white, we are targeted as the differentiation, that is being made by others and yet we aren’t doing it, ourselves the average conservative response to anti white discrimination or this guilt complex. We’re just all individuals: I’m not white, that’s them, weak, loser response to all this kind of stuff, and what I’m saying is: look we are white, they are recognizing something unique about us if people who had my view, show old political power, the world actually would be very different than it is, so I’m saying we need to understand that and embrace it and be willing to engage in a confrontation, if you would like to create a state only for white people like an entity or a country, yes eventually.
How we can take things, I don’t know practically speaking, I don’t know in the sense that many people have criticized me for saying: oh well you need to have a five-step plan for how this is gonna happen. I don’t, I don’t understand how I could be expected to think about how history will unfold history in these contingencies, it takes these twists and turns, they create like a territory only for Wyatt, you need to tell other people you go out, you’re not part of this territory. I mean that might have but that cannot going to happen if people came to a territory peacefully without violence, they could take and therefore leave but this is this is an ethnic cleansing I mean actually I mean take an ethnic group throw them out I mean it can be done in a violent way in a peaceful way, it certainly can be done in a peaceful way. I mean if we look at the history, the establishment of Israel, it was done to a very large degree of violence, there was dispossession of others but the fact is that I am the survival of my people and this is non-negotiable, so and at the end of the day I I think we should be willing to fight for our survival and so I’m not I you feel the survival of the white people is under jeopardyzes no question we’re being dispossessed, again, I don’t know I don’t think that they’re gonna come at us tomorrow morning with machetes or lock everyone up, of course, I don’t think that but in a sense of where is history going history is going towards the dispossession of white people, the influx of massive amounts of non-whites Arabs, Africans and so on much of the Muslims, Hispanics and so on, coming into white countries this is the reality where is history point. We’re all comfortable here, we can all go to our fancy restaurants and go up to our condo and watch Netflix and drink Chardonnay but the fact is one has to look out in front we have to think about what’s gonna happen in a hundred years when we’re not alive and we have to make decisions, on that basis that there’s no question, that this is happening if you look at what is happening to the Boer people of South Africa, just the other day the Blacks almost unanimous vote in parliament to dispossess farmers without compensation but that kind of thing can happen informally, in white countries, probably a more likely scenario in the United States is that is on weird going to drift into humiliation not so much total physical dispossession.
Well we will just lose a sense of ourselves will become this debased race a parody of what we have been in the past with no sense of ourselves , no care about the future no care outside of what am I going to consume this morning what kind of ham what kind of sauce do. I want to put on my hamburger what am I going to watch on my iPhone and and we need to be better and greater than that there’s something existence mere existence is not enough. I don’t want to save the white race if what we’re gonna be is a bunch of humiliated imbeciles, barely making it, we the the the meaning of of Europe is something much bigger, it’s this challenge that we need to rival our ancestors we need to we need to rival the ancient world in terms of greatness. Okay I really want to understand you right then there are quite a few things that you’re saying but if you mentioned the holocaust, you infected a holocaust it was a sad event it happened how do you see, I think all of those things those are certainly correct the the Second World War was an absolute catastrophe and you know, I do think it is rather unfair to be honest that the Jewish suffering seems to have a unique position when we look at the Second World War. Almost everyone can say of six million Jews died in the Second World War. Your average high school student knows that statistic how many Russians suffered during that catastrophic period how many Germans suffered at the hands of Allied bombing raids and so on these are very serious questions how many, how many poles suffered those in the hands of Germans, even arguing with you about numbers here, undoubtedly, Russian people that were killed in a in mass numbers much more than the six millions but it’s a naive question like what I mean how yourself what the Jews are being in yes definitely I feel sympathy for for everyone who but Jews nowadays. I mean they can be like part of the white country or they have to be excluded oh you mean in terms of a a future to the future right so obviously their Jewish citizens the United States and so on, I am but in terms of a in EthnoState in the future if we’re able to create a real homeland for us, no it would not be a homeland for the Jews. Jews have a homeland, they have a homeland right now which is Israel and actually my concept of the EthnoState which is a bit different than other people’s my concept actually takes is influenced quite a bit by Zionism,
in the sense that we have EthnoStates right now you could say that Poland right now is an Ethnostate, it has a common language, a common ethnicity more or less with some Slavic and dramatic elements and so on the common ethnicity, a common religion more or less with Catholicism in common history certainly in a common story of suffering and overcoming that is enough no stay but my vision of an Ethnostate is actually grander than that it would take some cues you could say from Zionism in the sense that it would be a large area that would be open to all white people, so it would be open to slobs it would be open to Anglo-Saxons it would beopen to Italians it would be open to Celts in a way one ones ones history ones race is one’s paths board and much like Israel is a homeland not just for Israeli citizens but for all Jews, this Ethnostate would be the same for whites but I don’t know if Jews are being the God of this white truedo they do Jews regard themselves as whiteI think is the question it’s like Isaid in the beginning, you didn’t answer no I mean you mentioned that you knew, you’re being left with a sense of guilt, it’s white right a lot of Israel, I’ve been left with a sense of scale that’s white Israel as well it’s divided between Ashkenazi Jews, a lot of people who will tell you how much skin has in store our property they they did everything to us by Arab Palestinian they said we grab the country, we so you keep going with a sense of guilt according tothem you’re another white imperialist right is it Jew, okay it doesn’t really matter right so there’s no doubt that Jews are also affected by desert like needle according to your idea because ofwhat because there is a problem with Judaism or you need tobe Christian and by the way a Christian is Catholic Protestant Anglican Orthodoxsure. I think it’s fine, I agree, Jews in a way exclude themselves, it would be an insult for me to say that Jews are just white because Jews aren’t just whites. The Jew , and in fact Jewish consciousness and Jewish identity, is based on resisting Gentiles. I mean the celebration of Hanukkah is fundamentally about not being Greek and Jewish identity I mean there there would be no need for Israel if Jews were just simply white people French for Germans and polish, that’s true everybody fought each other.
I agree you bring them together so we understand ourselves we ultimately understand ourselves as European even the most intense Ethnonationalists the French men who just hate the English more than he hates death itself or so on even though even that and those people that, that’s kind of something from the past. I even though it’s intense Ethnonationalist within Europe understand that we have a common civilization and sure the Gaulle said something to the effect, what is the the french-speaking people, he described themselves as a Mediterranean people of the Christian and Catholic religion that is influenced by the the classical world even that isn’t quite correct because France, actually has a tremendous Germanic influence the the word France mean its Frank it you know but all I’m saying is that even within our particular era t-there there is a sense of commonality Russians understand themselves is the the a third Rome and thus connected to Byzantium connected to the Roman Empire and so on we there is a christened um itself, this during the Middle Ages, there was an International Christiandone, you could say even something like the European Union which is a bugbear on the right in general and the Alt-Right in particular even this organization that’s filled with lunatic bureaucrats and so even that is based on a common nationality, in the sense that this all does make sense and really shame to express it because I’m absolutely sure that there are a lot of them who wouldn’t be able to express it right but you describe to me a process when you see people really get into it and open up right. I mean it’s very interesting because I’m a controversial figure but I’m not a controversial figure because I say things that are totally ridiculous I don’t believe in aliens. I think that we actually did land on the moon. I think the world is round. I don’t all of these hype of funny and esoteric, weird opinions
I don’t hold any of them I’m actually really mainstream when it comes to most of my basic beliefs but I’m wildly controversial because I’m saying something that is sensational but it’s true, I’m not saying that Hillary Clinton’s in fact is an alien that comes from another planet to rule over us, all I’m saying is it’s okay to be white,
we’re white, we’ve got to fight back and people look at that and it’s shocking and I think we should be shocking, I would never apologize at all for being bold for taking risk and so on but it’s shocking to them because that they kind of know I’m right and they feel it too and so that’s the right kind of shock it’s not shock for shock sake, it’s shock for a larger point so you see actually because if I tried to get to this logic there are a lot of people with a sense of guilt and I think they could prepare for it if they find a bad guy so you service the bad guy, maybe for idea against a team, I’m reading the people outside don’t put me at absolutely there’s I’m sure thereare many liberals who I’m not Richard Spencer, these Altright people know I’m one of the good whites yeah the good people but maybe we’re gonna be a second good for making intercuts, no problem, maybe we’re gonna have to be villains beforewe become heroes and I’m willing to bear that burden I don’t I I don’t think that everyone’s just gonna like me most of the time when people meet me personally they do like me they find me charming and witty but there are many people who have never met me personally who hate me, yeah who think that what I’m saying is absolute evil and so on but maybe we’re gonna have to bear that burden we’re gonna have to take it we’re gonna have to take these slings and arrows in order to get to the other side because I don’t go out to antagonize people but I’ve never had the illusion that I wouldn’t do that.
I always knew that what I was doing is a very steep road uphill and that this is going to be terribly difficult because people really absolutely agree that people wouldn’t like to hear you in length you know just in the end headline here and headline there in a bed type Rhino engineers from that again that that one mean let’s really ok let’s refer to it, it’s something that you said I mean the Hail Trump speech I mean describe you to me what happened there said, oh what’s the interpretation sure I mean it was an intense moment and it was a moment of euphoria for us all and I’ll say this I did think that Donald Trump was a breakthrough candidate and I did predict who’s gonna win but I was not sure about it, I was ready to on that night in November to go home and be like well it was a great we had a great time, what a party, we burst onto the scene but what happened was a miracle and it was a tremendous victory and it was all Trump, it wasn’t just any other candidate because it was a victory of nationalism and and also it was an Alt-Right victory, it was our ideas were entering the mainstream for the first time and so I think it was a time to celebrate and so I said yeah hail Trump, hail our people , hail victory.
I knew that that was going to be provocative but I didn’t quite know just how provocative it would become a meme on YouTube and the Internet and so on, and I remember one time I was actually eating a casual dinner with a friend of mine and I looked up and at the bar there was a television and I was on the television: hail Trump again, I raised a whiskey glass but it was surreal and I knew that nothing could ever be the same after that but you meant what you think, I meant it was a lieutenant in person a lot of history you know that the meaning of the word hail and in what it relates how it relates to people. I knew it was going to be provocative no question but I also don’t acknowledge our award because we should hail is a it’s we in America we have that hail to the chief it’s a it’s a sense of honoring someone and yes of course it has resonances with the Nazis Hitler, it’s being provocative but I won’t apologize for saying that hail Trump did achieve something those maracas to us, our people always hail our people, his victory might even be the most important one because one should always hail victory we’re not in this to play tiddly winks and also and I would say this and this will probably be fairly controversial we’re not in this simply for the truth in the sense that I don’t want our people to be dispossessed and for people like me to be thought thrown into a thought prison or something like this and be like well I was right no I want to win, winning is everything if you enter politics and you do not want to achieve victory, you need to take up the gore is a continuation of the idea that you don’t have to go along with a sense of guilt so if you win this is exactly it’s not about guilt. I know, we’ve overcome our terrible past, throw that out the window but we want to win, we want Whites to flourish in the United States. I want a great future for my children and my children’s children that is winning and even beyond safety and human flourishing. I want the white race to achieve greatness, I want the white race to do what we’re destined to do and that is explore the universe whether on the on the microscopic level or in the spatial realm. I know probably with that absolutely, I mean no but I recall the way, he’d been cheered you and it was the Nazi salute right, it was a Nazi salute yes, I mean it was very unfortunate and I think where that’s coming from with a lot of people because you see this on Twitter you see this elsewhere of using crazy memes and so on and invoking Hitler or whatever this is you have to understand where it’s coming fromit’s coming from a lot of young people who have been told their entire life that if they have any pride in who they are if they have it be of any sense of identity that they’re evil, your Hitler you’re literally Hitler, you’re the Ku Klux Klan, you’re this, you’re that and at some point those young men want to throw it back in the face of their liberal detractors and basically it’s a big fu, it’s a big yeah so what and look like it’s just a minute shooter so how will be Hitler and then it is rather it look an aspect of it’s euphoric, it’s ironic and it’s also childish, and I agree and I think we need to get over it you’re so wait at the time doing the speech. I didn’t see it actually first off and I’m not making excuses because it doesn’t matter there was lights coming at me and so I don’t really see the audience and then the other thing is that I raised my whiskey glass and that I went and shook someone’s hand and it’s no I didn’t know about it so when I saw it when I saw the video it was rather shocking but I don’t look it was what it was these look if someone deeply cares about the ideas in my speech if someone really if someone ultimately understands me then I might say look let’s have better optics let’s have a better aesthetic but that’s my criticism.
I don’t think anything’s gonna be gained by just pushing everyone away who is genuinely connected to the movement we need to set abetter example we need to set the right to one but I need to show people the way forward by the way whether or are they still somehow any jews. In the movement Alt-right there’s some Jews in the sense that you will find individuals who are interested in these ideas, they’re certainly Jews that I’ve collaborated with on book projects and so on but in in the sense of what is the Alt-right about it is not purely about Trump or individualism, it is about the white race but they have no place in the movement by cause you think about creating a state this is the idea of the movement and just cannot get in ultimately in a white Ethnostate, it would be for us sure but we’re not there yet we’re this is not gonna happen tomorrow morning this is gonna happen in the future but you could say that about every other political movement I mean do whites have a place in the Israeli nationalist movement, who knows well of course, I mean there might be or you might have your average white who sympathizes with them, you might have this religious right community that it’s wildly a lot of Jews that will support the movement what once you they’re being excluded for from the state it is like listen you’re in failure you cannot join it doesn’t mean inferiority just knowing it’s different, okay fine okay yeah that’s interesting, okay there are groups saying: we are different but you don’t say I’m better than yours, different means whites are better in the sense that they’re like I was lookup at Notre-Dame Cathedral, I resonate with that in a way that when I visited a mosque in in Turkey. I did not resonate at all, when I actually have visited uniform Hagia Sophia and I wanted to remove those minarets surrounding it to be honest.
The European sensibility, the mentality that is better in the sense, but there’s no objective standard on which one race is inherently better than the other there’s just a simple difference and this is because again, we evolved in radically different environments and so on we we became something different then one undifferentiated individualized mass but people will tell you: okay let’s refer to the territory you want to build your stay upon it is the United States but again like its same people came from all walks of life from very much different societies countries continents you took it right, you took it from Indian so they are the native inhabitants, right so go figure you can go to another continent and have your statement, let me answer that I mean first off I think that the Indians or Native Americans do have a place in North America. I should have a great deal of sympathy for them. I respect their culture and their culture is really fine and I actually want them to have a place in North America. I want them to have a truly Indian place, I don’t want them to be minorities in a white America, I want them to have their own spot, I want them to be themselves that being said yes, we did take the continent from the Indians and this is the way the world works the world of the world sovereignty and in peace are ultimately founded on conquest and that just is, what it is, it’s not nice, it’s not moral, it’s pretty moral you could say because one has to establish a territory often through violence in order to establish morality as we know it so one must secure sovereignty the state must have power or something must have power and then on top of that we can have a consensual Society where we’re not carrying guns everywhere are at each other’s throats we can have conversations, we can disagree that’s all fine but it has to be based on power and this is something that you know people like Kyle Schmidt recognized Thomas Hobbes recognized this – it to a very degree and certainly ancient thinkers right they didn’t even have to talk about it of course, that’s what it is I think in the contemporary world we seem to want to get away from this, we don’t think that politics is about power we want to think politics is about I don’t even know you’re stabilizing we’ll be here your state, I hope there would be an ethnicity North America but it could be anywhere the joystick as well in other words an idea before hand to do a single agenda right in Africa and yet in the place we are now but you are being attacked a lot I mean in the marches, I mean a lot of people come and attack you and your people, I mean were you beaten at the time at times were you well, I was attacked in the street and that was very interesting no there was actually on Inauguration Day and I was violently attacked by an antifa.
I was simply talking to a journalist and that was a wake-up call in more ways than one you could say and that was also a time when the movement went beyond the meme war you could say it went beyond the internet and it entered the real world and I would say a lot of the movement has never entered the real world a lot of the movement is still kind of stuck in that internet space but we’re gonna ultimately have to be in the real world and then the political realm so I was attacked in that way and in Charlottesville, I was maced first by an anti father and then by the police so can you describe to me what happened really when I was in Charlottesville again this was a rally organized by a man named Jason Kessler, he wanted to bring together almost everyone that we could on the right that we could unite around defense of these civil war statues, Civil War era statues and memorials. I was very excited about this I knew that it was building up an excitement, I didn’t quite expect it to be as big and powerful as it was but I was I was there to speak and but when we got there we we were all funneled into Leepark and the police were from the outset not really doing their job as I entered the park I was maced by someone so I was simply walking down the street and someone jumped out and maced me and I recover it obviously we were in the park and we were one, we were waiting when are we going to be able to speak and the police were just dragging their feet uh that’s later then before any chaos ensued the police came out and again we saw these militarized police officers marching up they came out and they announced we have the the Virginia has declared a state of emergency, you need to all disperse now and so on we were flabbergasted and utterly frustrated in a sense that we hadn’t even said a word yet and there was no real violence, there was just little things like maybe a scuffle here. I got maced whatever then the police in this militarized fashion cleared the field Lee or Emancipation Park and pushed us out on to Market Street Market Street in an utterly predictable fashion became a street of violence mayhem and chaos the police did the opposite of their job the the police are supposed to protect people who are lawfully assembling and allowing us to speak instead the police utterly betrayed us and generated chaos and I don’t say that lightly, I don’t want to criticize the police that’s not my general opinion but I have to in this case it was oppressive and it was utterly immoral what they did so we were forced out on to Market Street. I stood up to the police and there’s actually a photo that’s now fairly famous meme kind of gritting my teeth with the police officers but I then I was maced by the police right in the face I was totally discombobulated then actually Gregory Conte in the other room now we eventually exited, we actually as we were exiting on to Market Street, I talked to a police officer and I said: well I was like look I’m discombobulated right now, I’m a target for these people need the anti-show, they might like to punch a trump supporter but they really want to attack Richard Spencer and again some of my other friends Baked Alaska was a really great guy he was viciously attacked with with acid and his eyes he’s luckily recovered but it’s terrible and I told them this I was like look what do we do what do we do and they just pushed us out on to Market Street they pushed us into the chaos and I were able to escape effectively and in a way unlucky to get out of there with my life while we were going walking down or actually running down Market Street people were throwing things at me something actually hit my back, no injury at all but then this was extremely dangerous and it needed have been so I can easily imagine alternative scenarios in which the police do their job and there’s as cuffle here, some guy gets maced but no one really gets hurt but what ultimately happened in all that chaos is a woman was killed and in again with James fields who was the the young man who was driving the car look if he did maliciously Drive a car into a crowd and that can be proven that I will absolutely condemn that has no place in the movement.
However I am not convinced that happened there is there’s actually a professor recently he talked about waving a gun at the car the car was attacked not only after the event but before also there’s some strange aspects of this he rammed into another car that then rammed into the crowd it’s a strange event and I don’t quite know what happened so I’m reserving but the judgment that is against the mayor and the governor and the Chief of Police that is this is their job, this is their job to maintain order and they did the opposite of their job, they maintained chaos. Donald Trump’s in both eyes to be lived but we said there were good people on both sides, okay I think saying both sides to be blamed is a fair statement were mistakes made on our side sure there were a lot of mistakes on their side and on the other side and again the vision of this event that’s being put forward say in one case in a lawsuit that has been filed against me in civil court, it is this vision that we came to just it was a secret attack people of the community and so on that’s not my experience first off: I was in a first time, I didn’t organize the event but secondly I was totally unarmed, I never attacked anyone, I was attacked on multiple occasions but so I was very proud of Donald Trump because at that moment of crisis the mainstream media was just going into conniption fits of hysteria and Donald Trump’s statements were reasonable and based and have you ever met him, I’ve never met him, no but I would be represented someone who might push the country forward to fulfill your ideas um yes and no he I didn’t think that Donald Trump I’ve never thought that Donald Trump was a true identarian or hope right or anything like that but could Donald Trump bring these ideas into the mainstream yes in the sense not totally he’s not gonna articulate things like I don’t even close but can he bring that idea of nationalism and even identity into the mainstream, he did that, he didn’t again most conservatives talk about loving capitalism or loving bombing Muslims or whatever he talked about. I’m gonna be your champion, I am go I’m gonna use the government on your behalf, you the American people, your dreamers – I’m not worried about immigrants, I’m worried about you, this basic heart felt statements, I unbelievable, I had never heard those by any Republican in my adult lifetime and so the fact that he brought that into the fray what it was an amazing thing , now Trump in office is Trump in office, the same Trump who ran no unfortunately, not your dissolution, I’m disillusioned by Trump sure , I mean when Trump is attacked by people who are very unfair and very wrong I’ll certainly support Trump and I think Trump has actually attempted things that are very good even the Daca issue we’re now kind of forgetting about it Trump was attempting to end a chain of migration to really change the paradigm while offering an amnesty effectively for it, for Daca the deferred action on childhood arrivals what I believe it stands for that was an interesting deal, I respect that deal, I’m glad he seems to build the wall although I don’t know but to be honest in terms of the rest of his policies.
I am NOT a fan of the attack on Syria , that was unwarranted thankfully that didn’t lead to a larger war the the health care stuff was just a fiasco, he had no vision, he himself once of a national healthcare system, he’s ridden this in a book about how he wants something like Medicare for all he wants to have a system for everyone that takes care of everyone yet he’s pursuing this Republican weird half Obamacare half free-market just incoherent nonsense he’s pursuing that the tax cuts I don’t care about tax cuts the corporations have piles of money, they’re rich people are doing fine
I would much much rather that he focus on a infrastructure plan let’s put people to work building the wall with people to work building a major rail light rail system around the country let’s put people to work in some other way and somebody in some kind of environmental protection way much like FDR built all these wonderful things of the national parks, why don’t we do something like that let’s think outside the box let’s stop being conservatives, let’s stop being Paul Ryan, let’s stop being Mitch McConnell, those people are douses and awful let’s live be a real nationalists take from the left destroy, the left they hate you so destroy them by taking all their good stuff because a lot of white people vote for the left on the basis of environmentalism and infrastructure and non insane foreign policy they don’t like the anti white stuff they don’t like the Democratic Party as the people of color party, they don’t know the mass immigration party, they don’t like that, so take the good stuff from the left, don’t take the bad stuff and defeat your enemies on both sides, this was the path for Donald Trump and this is what he didn’t do so. I want to be a Trump fan but I’m a critical person and he’s under attack , he’s missed a lot of opportunities so we finally talk about foreign policy North Korea, talking about nationalism only guard this idea of North Korea.
North Korea is interestingly, a very nationalistic society, they have a sense of themselves as an ethnicity or is a race and whatever you want to say about that society. I don’t want to live in North Korea but whatever you want to say about it there actually is a sense of national feeling, they’re in their parades and public festivals and and so on , that’s something to consider, I’m not endorsing Kim Jong-un or communism for God’s sake or anything like that but but it is interesting is that a nationalistic community. I don’t want to have a North Korean economic system but there actually that sense of themselves is something ,I think , one should always find the virtue, it’s easy to bash North Korea everyone that left and right everyone bashes little more difficult to actually show some respect for who they are now in terms of foreign policy. I totally support Donald Trump’s outreach .
I think that he might have been playing a kind of madman game internationally where he presented himself as unhinged lunatic with his finger on the button and but now but in order to get a good deal later on in order to then reach out to North to Kim Jong-Un and and engage in talks about de-escalation. I think that ultimately North Korea should unify with South Korea, I think we need to bring an end to that conflict there, there has been an armistice but there has not been an end to the Korean War, we need to bring an end to that conflict.
I would support reunification as difficult as that might be and with the understanding that North Korea is going to be effectively part of an empire, a larger sphere that is what I want. I think there should be de-escalation of American forces in that region of the world.
I’ve got to leave the place, I think certainly Japan has an amazing Society and Japan has a sense of nationalism and honor that can’t be matched so.
I think Japan should rise rightfully to not just an economic power but a military power and that we can ultimately outsource many questions in that region of America should go out generally speaking this is not our place.
I would much rather that we focus on securing our realm, a larger greater realm in North America that is a realm for our people that we’re focusing here. I think in terms of the the Far East there are going to be they’re gonna be hegemonic powers obviously China.
I think Japan can and rise to something like that in a way balance, this is what I would like to see.
I think taking the troops out would be a very interesting move that would create a new world order and that’s more productive.
I don’t think we need to be opening ourselves up to any kind of Far East conflict and I would say this more or less say the safe thing about NATO.
I mean Donald Trump criticized NATO fascinating, during the campaign but he hasn’t really done anything he’s just claimed that we want Germany to pay more something, it’s weird, this is the question: do we want to continue to try to expand NATO at the expense of Russia’s natural sphere because look we need to the the Westphalian system of individual nation states that was probably always a little bit of an illusion but it’s not really operative anymore certainly the Cold War was an imperial clash between an American and a Soviet empire and that is more or less what we see today after the fall of the Soviet Union, the United States made promises about not one more inch would we expand NATO, we have not kept those promises, we’ve expanded NATO into the former Soviet block, the the eponym Ukraine, the Maidan and this kind of thing was obviously supported by the West as a way often approaching on Russia’s natural sphere.
I think Russia should have a natural sphere, Russia is not just a nation but it’s an empire and we need to simply respect that, I don’t think there’s any reason why we should be attempting to question of Russian sovereignty particularly in Ukraine but really elsewhere now could NATO in this fascinating dialectical move, could NATO become a kind of Ethnostate, a day you could say the European Union is based on it, if it’s anything based on a shared civilization and in the white race if it’s gonna any legitimacy otherwise it could just be a bureaucracy why even used Europe in that word, why have a national anthem, why evoke Beethoven and the ode to joy, it’s kind of a bureaucracy in search of sovereignty so it it is bureaucratic but it’s not really sovereign, it doesn’t have a military doesn’t really have a foreign policy outside of trade, NATO is an interesting, it’s an overlay, so NATO is part of an American Empire. NATO is not really European, I mean let’s be honest, NATO is about keeping the Russians out of Europe, it’s about keeping America in Europe and keeping Germany down but could NATO transform into a kind of white military structure that would solve a lot of these problems so that NATO itself would be sovereign militarily there would not be interesting conflicts and within the white race and that there could be a sphere a European sphere that would be friendly towards Russia but would it be Russia would kind of guard how everyone should have you think its own place and when the North Korean have their place this is where we expect them. I’m okay with it, I don’t want to live there but I’m okay with it and but again but it’s not just that it’s we need to think also kind of bigger because the geopolitics isn’t just about little nation-states like it’s not just about Italy and its foreign policy, it’s about bigger things about NATO, it’s about China, it’s about Russia, no area I mean according to the outright we’re fine with it. I don’t have any desire to go destroy North Korea, look the nuclear weapons situation: all things being equal it’s better if another country doesn’t have nuclear weapons but the fact is North Korea is a vassal state of China, if it affect already has nuclear weapons and also I understand why North Korea would seek nuclear weapons, when you have the mass media and residents talking about bombing them back to the Stone Age III then think North Korea should be North Korea
I think we can let it be itself, just for you some Israelis to very short in one sentence.
I mean people will say you’re racist, what’s your answer: race is real race matters and races are the foundation of identity, racist is just a slur word it’s just you’re a bad guy is what it means but does race means something to me, is it the foundation of my world view absolutely, yes thank you phonetic, I’m not Anti-semitic, I don’t , I don’t hate Jewish people or Semites, I am aware of Jewish identity and Jewish influence so in the sense that I’m aware of Cuban identity and influence I’m aware of Italian identity, influence that country black aura, I’m not anti black now, okay and yes that was a flier that actually Gregory was handing those out at one point but it stands for what was actually handed out during a pact and and you can get a photo of that, if you want to put in your documentary what it means you had no more worse for Israel in the sense that I respect Israel. I don’t question the basis of Israel, in the sense: it is a Jewish state but Israel needs to have its own foreign policy, I don’t want any American fighting, a war that is in support of Israel, that is not who we are, we need to fight wars that are in support of us, so Israel can have its foreign policy, if I were president I might agree with Israel here ,disagree there, I might actually agree with Iran here, disagree there, but I’m not going to have a foreign policy that’s almost maniacally pro Saudi and pro-israeli. I think actually I would much rather have a balance in that world and try to find a way to say: we respect Syrian sovereignty, we respect Assad, we respect her sovereignty, we don’t want to destroy Iran like some John Bolton or some of these Christian Zionist fanatics think we need to destroy, I actually would prefer a balance of power in the Middle East and to have unilateral individual relations with these big players like Iran, Syria, Israel, certainly being one, so less one Adolf Hitler. I don’t think that your adoring or you think that he’s a good guy but now you think he had good ideas some of his ideas were good, some of many of the ideas about out of that out of Hitler had were not unique to out of Hitler, on the idea of German nationalism of a certain Germans and so on that’s not unique to Hitler and that is a good idea some some aspects of fascism we’re actually not unique and I do think National Socialism is fascism that generic fascism, these ideas of diamond dynamism of combining modernity with tradition, having an Autobahn but also having a beautiful view and a protection of nature while you’re having these cars racing down at km/h that kind of fusion futurism which is at the heart of fascism, those are good ideas but they’re not unique to Hitler, what does that mean in the sense of a space for a community to live is that is not just simply a good idea, I mean, it’s the way the world works,
that’s the Norwegian flag we chose it is very similar to the fascist. I didn’t know that it is very similar, I just been to Germany to begin a movement, but you don’t begin of course and agree with their flags, you should see is very similar to the Norwegian one and when I asked if it has to do with the anti-fascist movement it seems to show I’m the real national and good guy, I was saying in the beginning the conversation that forget fullness if you’re just simply defining oneself as I’m not Hitler in a weird way, you make Hitler all-powerful, you know Hitler is a kind of negative moral to the contemporary world, everyone wants to be not Hitler and if you do something that’s a little too nationalistic , oh you’re like Hitler, this is childish, we need to get over this and there a lot, there are many other great figures who were utterly demonized in their day, Napoleon being one , Julius Caesar being one, but in the in the longer, when we’re able to look back upon them we can recognize great virtues and someone like Napoleon even though at the time yes, I think we should have a bit of a Napoleonic boldness to our movement. I am afraid for my life, no question its I have a different consciousness than I did five years ago, five years ago if I were to walk into a restaurant I’m an anonymous guy, I just go in sit down and whatever, when I walk anywhere, when I walk down the street am I’m in or up and I’m aware of who’s someone looking at me when I walk down and I see someone who’s dressed in all black is this someone who might actually attack me is this an anti phone number. I don’t quite sleep with a Walther PPK under my pillow like James Bond but I certainly do protect myself. In that sense I do fear for my life but at the end of the day what we’re doing is it’s not about me, look I have an ego, I want to be recognized, I want success of course but it’s not fundamentally about me, I could have done a lot of things in my life if I had simply gone to law school like a good boy if I had simply gone become a banker or whatever like a good boy, I would have a lot more money that I have now and I would be have less concerns I could walk anywhere without any concern at all.
Instead I’m willing to sacrifice and one has to be willing to sacrifice in this movement, one has to what ultimately has to be willing to lay down the one’s life for the cause now that doesn’t mean. I want that or I seek martyrdom, I want to die happy in bed from heaven but I am willing to risk my life for this cause and if one isn’t willing to face death as Hegel talked about to stare down one’s opponent and be willing to die for something higher that one needs to take up gardening later.